What is greatness? with Chuck Klosterman
ReThinking
TED
4.7 • 626 Ratings
🗓️ 2 June 2026
⏱️ 39 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What does it take to actually be the greatest of all time? Chuck Klosterman is a cultural critic who studies the lowbrow, taking a closer look at sports, music, and media to discover what it can tell us about society and human behavior. In this episode, Adam challenges Chuck on his controversial take that Tom Brady is not the greatest football player of all time, and the two wrestle with the definition of greatness in the context of modern culture. Chuck also argues that football is headed towards a decline as America’s favorite sport, and invites Adam to reconsider whether or not self-awareness is an advantageous trait.
Featured guest
- Follow Chuck Klosterman on Facebook and at https://chuckklostermanauthor.com/
- Buy Chuck's book Football
Connect with the team
- Follow Adam on Instagram, LinkedIn, and at adamgrant.net/
- Subscribe to Adam’s substack Granted
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ReThinking is produced by Cosmic Standard. Our Senior Producer is Jessica Glazer, our Engineer is Aja Simpson, our Technical Director is Jacob Winik, and our Executive Producer is Eliza Smith.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | I'm looking at football as art in this book. I'm really using a lot of the same techniques you would |
| 0:05.0 | use in criticism about film or whatever, but I'm applying it to this sport. So I am viewing it as art. |
| 0:11.2 | I am viewing it as a creative endeavor. Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking, |
| 0:18.3 | my podcast with Ted on the Science of What Makes Us Tick. |
| 0:21.4 | I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people |
| 0:25.4 | to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking. |
| 0:32.5 | Have you ever considered the spiritual underpinnings of cocoa puffs? |
| 0:36.5 | Or reflected on the life lessons from |
| 0:38.2 | Saved by the Bell? |
| 0:39.5 | Lucky for us, Chuck Klosterman has. |
| 0:41.8 | Chuck is the author of the highly influential essay collections, Eating the Dinosaur, and Sex Drugs |
| 0:46.4 | and Coco Puffs. |
| 0:47.8 | He's a cultural critic who's made a name for himself as a scholar of the lowbrow, and I |
| 0:52.0 | think his high analysis is always fascinating. |
| 0:54.8 | Today, we're diving into a similarly ubiquitous topic, football. |
| 0:58.6 | Chuck's new book is called football, and it's about so much more than a game. |
| 1:02.4 | I wanted to start our conversation with his case that Tom Brady is not the goat. |
| 1:06.7 | Chuck says the greatest football player of all time is Jim Thorpe, an exceptional athlete |
| 1:10.6 | and first president of the NFL, |
| 1:12.3 | who retired from the game all the way back in 1928. |
| 1:15.5 | I'm not sure I'm ready to rethink this one. |
| 1:20.7 | I think the place we have to start is, |
... |
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