What does it look like to build something you believe in so much that you keep going even when the runway is measured in weeks and not months?

This week we're talking to Olivia Messer, journalist, novelist, and editor-in-chief of The Barbed Wire, an independent Texas newsroom.

She's been holding together with investigative reporting, pet portraits, and a level of radical transparency that's made at least one of your hosts cry.

Mike, I don't feel like that's much of a mystery.

I could cry silently. They don't know.

That's true. That's true.

We get into what it actually costs to run a newsroom that nobody's paying for yet,

why virality and revenue have essentially no relationship to each other.

And what happens to your creativity when every single day is a budget meeting?

The creative economy is broken, but some people are still making it work.

We're here to find out how.

I'm Autumn Marie Cox. And I'm open Mike Eagle. And this is past two.

Olivia Messer. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.

Olivia is a journalist, novelist, and editor-in-chief of the barbed wire

who spent a decade investigating the sexual harassment in the Texas legislature

before building her own independent news outlet.

I am so glad you could join us.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Is it on me? I think it's on me.

I'll do it.

All right.

You're always willing.

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