This is Hidden Killers with Tony Bruske.

Here now, Tony Bruske.

How difficult would it be to defend Karen Reed?

Just considering how, I guess, loose of a canon she seems to be, or lack of candor,

or lack of knowing when to shut up, that seems to be quite a difficulty for her, not only from the

doc, but again, every time she's on the court steps and Mike's go in front of her, she just

can't seem to help herself and to speak into them and say incriminating things about herself

without seeming to even understand it.

In the criminal defense world, we often talk about client control.

And what that means is sort of protecting your client from themselves, from them doing

something that could substantially harm their case.

But when you have a client who is kind of headstrong, who at least by some accounts,

sort of seeks out media attention, that kind of thing.

And then on top of that, who doesn't present terribly well in the public eye,

that's a recipe for a disaster, and it can be terribly frustrating for a defense turn.

And it feels like initially, you know, she presented okay the first round. I mean,

meaning people thought she was hot. Uh, and that's about it. Nobody really knew a whole lot more.

Uh, but now that we've gotten to see the real Karen, more than just a single dateline episode

or anything, and we've seen her outlook, her

lack of empathy for the victims, families, for these kids that have been harassed, that have

absolutely nothing to do with this case. It's been pretty shocking. And now that we're also

seeing pretty damn clear evidence that looks like collusion, not

...