Hello from Washington. I'm Chuck Todd, and this is the Chuck Toddcast. So we're diving into more of our what-if series with another alternative history. Today, we're going to discuss what if Trump was too involved in football to get into politics. My guest today is Jeff Proman. He's author of a book called Football for a Buck.

His book explores the rise and demise of America's failed spring football league, the

USFL, the last most direct threat to the NFL back in the early to mid-80s.

President-elect Donald Trump owned the USFL's New Jersey Generals,

and he played a role in the league's 1980s antitrust suit against the NFL that was technically successful.

And we're going to get into it in a few minutes, and it's also how Jeff got the title for his book,

Football for a Buck.

And we'll get in that in a minute.

But in 2014, Donald Trump decided to put his hat into the ring to be selected as the potential new owner of the Buffalo Bills.

The longtime family, the patriarch there, had died.

The Wilson family, Ralph Wilson, was the longtime owner.

And it was being put up for sale. You had people

like the eventual ownership group, the Pagulas, who have it now. You had Bon Jovi, I believe,

led a let a group. And Donald Trump expressed interest back then. And it was serious interest.

Of course, it turned out he didn't have the financial power, nor yet the cultural or political

power to make those NFL owners think, hey, we should get into bed with Donald Trump.

But what if they had actually done it the other way?

Maybe there never is a President Trump.

Before we get started, I want to give a big thanks to Jim and Vodula,

who both wrote in with a version of this question, and so we decided to tackle it this way

because there have been two big moments where Donald Trump and football intertwined.

So with that, let me bring in Jeff Perlman. Jeff, welcome to the podcast.

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