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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

What economists and politicians get wrong about trade

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.5 • 11.1K Ratings

🗓️ 19 July 2018

⏱️ 56 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

For decades, Harvard’s Dani Rodrik has been a lonely voice in the economics profession warning that the academics were getting this one wrong. Trade is not an unalloyed good; “globalization would deepen societal divisions, exacerbate distributional problems, and undermine domestic social bargains,” Rodrik warned. But few listened. The tendency to emphasize trade’s benefits while ignoring its costs created a massive political backlash. “Economists would have had a greater—and much more positive—impact on the public debate had they stuck closer to their discipline’s teaching, instead of siding with globalization’s cheerleaders,” Rodrik wrote in his excellent book, Straight Talk on Trade: Ideas for a Sane World Economy. Rodrik isn’t just a rock thrower. He’s a professor of international political economy at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government and the president-elect of the International Economic Association. And so, as Trump’s trade war begins, I asked him on the show to explain what politicians and economists have gotten so wrong about trade, and what it would mean to get it right. Recommended books (and an article): Economism: Bad Economics and the Rise of Inequality by James Kwak Power and Plenty: Trade, War, and the World Economy in the Second Millennium by Ronald Findlay and Kevin O'Rourke “International Regimes, Transactions, and Change: Embedded Liberalism in the Postwar Economic Order” by John Ruggie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Support for this episode comes from Remotely Curious, a podcast from Dropbox all about our

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new world of work, whether hybrid, remote, or as Dropbox calls it, virtual first.

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Each episode features a conversation asking tough questions, like how to navigate the

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Here from some of today's top experts like podcaster and musician Rushikesh Hereway,

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0:33.2

Follow and listen to Remotely Curious wherever you get your podcasts.

0:39.5

We are forced to accept that some of the complaints that people like Trump have made of the

0:47.5

existing trade regime are actually valid.

0:51.7

We ought to build on that critique, something that is neither this knee-jerk protectionism,

0:58.0

zero sum view of trade, nor the market fundamentalism, neoliberalism model to which this is all

1:05.4

a reaction.

1:09.5

Hello and welcome to the Ezra Klein Show on the Vox Media Podcasting Network.

1:22.6

I've been thinking a lot about trade recently.

1:25.6

Obviously it's been in the news, Donald Trump has launched Trade War, which is not the

1:29.4

term I love.

1:31.4

It makes it sound more vivid and crazy than I think what is going on actually is.

1:35.8

But it's a good time to talk about trade.

1:38.9

There has been this tendency to both recognize that he reflects some very real ideological

1:45.4

currents and even substantive important critiques in American life and policy, and also that

1:50.8

he himself is an unusual human.

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