Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American power,

politics and society. On each episode, I will talk to an American expert or an expert on

America about something that's going on in America in

2023. I am delighted to be joined by Jacob Heilbrun, who is editor of the national interest

and a columnist for the Spectator World edition. And we're going to be talking about Vivek Ramoswamy, who I'm sure American

listeners know, but it might be worth explaining for the few that don't. He's running to be

president to the United States. He's making quite a lot of noise in the media. He's still

polling quite low, so anywhere between sort of six and and 14%, depending on which poll you look at.

But he is, probably it's fair to say, the third horse in the race at the moment.

And he recently published an essay in the American Conservative, which is a magazine I used to work for, and which Jacob was written for in the past.

And that essay was called A Viable Realism and Revival Doctrine.

And the subhead was Washington, Monroe and Nixon equals America first.

Jacob, again, bear in mind our British listeners who might not sort of be across the

variations in American foreign policy visions lay out for us what Ramosami said and why he might

have done it in the American Conservative and what you think of it. I should say you've already

written a piece about the emptiness of the Ramosami doctrine. So I think it. I should say you've already written a piece about the

emptiness of the Ramoswamy doctrine. So I think it's fair to say you're not a fan. But explain

what it is and then explain why you're not a fan. Vivik Ramoswamy is a 38-year-old entrepreneur

who has amassed a fortune of about $300 million and delivered a rap song as part of his campaign pitch in Iowa,

much to the astonishment of the Republican audience.

He did extremely well in the debate, the first debate among

Republicans in Milwaukee, which where Trump who did not attend, crowned him the winner, because

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