What Cancer Reveals About the Limits of Darwinian Evolutionary Processes

Intelligent Design the Future

Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture

Science, Philosophy, Astronomy, Society & Culture, Life Sciences

4 • 993 Ratings

🗓️ 27 August 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

We all know people who have suffered with cancer. It's a major affliction of our modern world and many scientists are studying it closely to find a cure. Karl Krueger is one such scientist who has spent much of his career in cancer research. Today, host Casey Luskin speaks with Krueger about his work and what cancer can teach us about the limits of Darwinian processes. In his tenure at the National Cancer Institute, Krueger had a front-row seat to cancer research progress. After reviewing countless research projects and mountains of data, Krueger learned that cancer doesn't create new features at the molecular leveI, it degrades them. And breakage of aboriginal design is a hallmark of Darwinian processes. Krueger explains in this illuminating discussion. Source

Transcript

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0:00.0	ID the Future, a podcast about evolution and intelligent design.
0:10.7	Are there prestigious ID-friendly scientists out there who you've never heard of?
0:15.0	I'm Casey Luskin with ID the Future.
0:17.3	And the answer to that question is yes.
0:19.3	In fact, a lot more than you might think. However,
0:21.8	in the vast majority of cases, the identities of these scientists cannot be made public because
0:26.8	they fear for their careers. But every once in a while, one of these pro-ID scientists finds
0:31.8	themselves retiring or maybe no longer at risk for some other reason, and they decide to come out
0:37.3	of the closet. Today you're going to meet one of those ID-friendly scientists. And so I'd like to introduce you to Carl Krueger. Hi Carl and welcome to ID the Future. Hi KC, how you doing? Great to have you on, really great, yeah. So I'll introduce you, Carl, and we'll get into some questions here. Carl Kruger is a retired
0:55.8	program director in the Division of Cancer Prevention at the National Cancer Institute of the NIH.
1:01.7	He received a Ph.D. in biochemistry from Vanderbilt University and then continued doing research
1:07.1	at the NIH as a postdoctoral fellow before he joined the faculty of Georgetown University
1:12.4	School of Medicine. He then went to the National Cancer Institute in 2004 and retired at the end of
1:18.5	2022. He's also a supremely nice guy. So I want to start by just telling a little story here.
1:25.8	One day in the mid-2000s, Carl and I think it was probably
1:29.7	around the year 2013. And Gager and I were here at the downtown Seattle Office of Discovery
1:35.8	Institute, and we received a message that an ID-friendly scientist was in town and wanted to meet
1:40.6	us. That scientist turned out to be Carl Kruger, who at the time was still
1:44.7	working at the National Cancer Institute. And we had a lovely time meeting Carl and he then went back
1:50.0	to the East Coast and we loosely kept in touch over the years. Well, a number of years back around
1:55.8	2020 after I got back from my PhD in South Africa, I reconnected with Carl. And he mentioned that he was
2:02.1	going to retire fairly soon. And after retirement, he said that he wanted to do more work in the IAD
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