Welcome to Just Between Us, the podcast with all of the answers, some of the time.

A bit of a different thing going on this week.

You've been immature and you've lied.

And now you're trying to turn it on me and manipulate me and gaslight me.

I was trying to manipulate you.

Diana, you would be chucking their clothes out of the window.

I know, I'd be like, are you joking?

I don't know.

I guess you'd have to ask.

Someone that has sex.

Someone that has sex.

And remember, it's just between us.

Welcome to the History Extra podcast.

Fascinating historical conversations from BBC History Magazine and BBC History Revealed.

What can the fall of Rome teach us about the decline of the West today?

That's the question at the centre of John Rapley and Peter Heather's new book,

Why Empires Fall, where Peter, a historian of the late Roman Empire,

and John, a political economist,

investigate comparisons and differences between the two case studies.

I spoke to them to find out more, and the first

voice you'll hear after mine is Peters. So John and Peter, thank you so much for joining me today

to talk about your new book, Why Empires Fall. To start us off and give listeners a bit of grounding

...