Welcome to Just Between Us, the podcast with all of the answers, some of the time. A bit of a different thing going on this week. You've been immature and you've lied. And now you're trying to turn it on me and manipulate me and gas-right me. I was trying to manipulate you. Diana, you would be chucking their clothes out of the window. I know, I'd be like, are you joking? I don't know. I guess you'd have to ask. Someone that has stuck.

Someone that has stuck. chucking their clothes out of the window. I know, I'd be like, are you joking? I don't know.

I guess you'd have to ask.

Someone that has sex.

Someone that has sex.

Right.

And remember, it's just between us.

Welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet.

I'm producer, Mia Serenti.

Can criminal psychology offer us a new way to think about

and combat climate change? In this episode, criminal psychologist Julia Shaw sits down with

physicist and broadcaster Helen Chersky to offer a compelling new framework to understand

environmental crime. While big structural issues often cloud political progress on

climate action, sure takes a more granular approach. In conversation with Chersky, she draws on her new book,

Green Crime, to illuminate the minds of those behind some of the world's most devastating environmental

scandals. Let's join our host, Helen Chersky,

now with more. Welcome to Intelligence Squared. I'm Helen Cheresky. And our guest for today is

Julia Shaw. She's a criminal psychologist. She's worked as an expert witness. She gives talks all around the

world. And she's worked as a lecturer and researcher at various universities. She is a prolific writer. She gives talks all around the world and she's worked as lecturer and researcher at

various universities. She is a prolific writer. She is the author of three past books, the

memory, illusion, making evil and by. But today we are here to talk about her new book,

which is this one, Green Crime, which is an investigation into the criminals associated with climate destruction,

...