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We the People

What are “True Threats” Under the First Amendment?

We the People

National Constitution Center

News, News Commentary, History

4.61.1K Ratings

🗓️ 27 April 2023

⏱️ 54 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Last week, the Supreme Court heard a case about a Colorado man, Billy Ray Counterman, who was sentenced to over four years in prison for stalking due to threatening Facebook messages that he sent to a singer named C.W. Counterman argued that the charges violated his speech rights and that his messages were not “true threats,” which is a kind of speech not protected under the First Amendment. The issue in the case is whether or not his messages actually constituted under “true threats” (or if conduct like stalking should be distinguished); and if so, how should courts determine what a “true threat” is? In this episode, we dive into the facts and issues in the Counterman v. Colorado case, the history of “true threats” doctrine under the First Amendment, and recap the oral arguments, including whether the justices might decide that “true threats” should be determined by an objective test, such as if a reasonable person would regard the statement as a threat of violence; or whether they might find that it depends on the speaker’s specific intent. Genevieve Lakier of the University of Chicago and Gabe Walters of FIRE join host Jeffrey Rosen to discuss.  Resources: Brief of Amicus Curiae Foundation for Individuals Rights and Expression in Support of Petitioner and Reversal, Counterman v. Colorado  Brief of First Amendment Scholars Evelyn Douek, Genevieve Lakier, and Eugene Volokh in Support of Respondent, Counterman v. Colorado  Oral argument in Counterman v. Colorado, April 19, 2023 (Audio by C-SPAN; transcript) Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org.    Continue today’s conversation on Facebook and Twitter using @ConstitutionCtr.    Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly.    You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

Transcript

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0:00.0

The Supreme Court recently heard a case about a Colorado man who was sentenced to over four years in prison for stalking because of threatening Facebook messages he sent to a singer called CW.

0:12.0

The Supreme Court has held that the First Amendment doesn't protect

0:14.6

true threats, but what makes a true threat different from a statement that uses

0:19.8

threatening words but is just a joke or shouldn't be taken seriously.

0:23.0

Hello friends, I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution

0:31.4

Center and welcome to We The People, a weekly show of

0:34.2

constitutional debate. The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit

0:39.2

chartered by Congress to increase awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the

0:44.4

American people. In this episode we'll do a deep dive into

0:48.6

Counterman versus Colorado and the history of the true threats doctrine under the First Amendment

0:53.7

will recap the oral arguments and break down the questions the justice is

0:57.0

asked as they grappled with the question of whether you need to intend to cause emotional distress in determining whether a

1:05.7

statement is a true threat. Joining us are two great experts on free speech and

1:11.2

the First Amendment. Gabe Walters is an attorney at Fire, the Foundation for Individual

1:16.0

Rights and Expression, where he litigates free speech and free expression cases in

1:20.4

federal and state courts.

1:21.4

He co-authored a brief and supported the petitioner,

1:24.2

Billy Ray Counterman in the Counterman case.

1:27.0

Gabe, welcome to We the People.

1:29.1

Thanks for having me, Jeff.

1:30.6

And Genevieve Lakeier is professor of law at the University of Chicago Law School, where she teaches and rights about freedom of speech and constitutional law.

1:38.0

She co-authored a brief on the other side of the case supporting the respondent the state of Colorado.

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