Hello and welcome to rock and roll politics, the podcast with me, Steve Richards,

and as ever, we have got a lot to cram in in our time together.

The podcast at the end of last week was recorded amidst high drama.

I had, as I hope you all know, recorded a podcast about the many important lessons arising, in my view view from the whole digital ID sequence,

including the so-called U-turn announced last week when the government said it wasn't going to be

compulsory.

But as I finished recording, the news came in of Robert Jemrick's Defectection to Reform. So I recorded a brief intro with

one kind of thought, which I shall return to in a moment on that. But I didn't want to record a

whole new podcast and dump the lessons arising from the ID card saga, because I think they are many and profound.

And if they are learnt, I think Kirstama and this Labour government could be in place for some time.

If they are not learned, I think neither will be in place for that much time.

Certainly Kirstama.

But if they are learned, that will be different.

So I decided to keep that. I hope you agree with that decision. However, there are many questions arising from the schism on the right, which I will return to now, if that's okay, with all of you. Some of your questions refer to it,

and indeed the wider reflections on ID cards, and we'll come to them shortly. So here is,

if you like, the sequel to an opening thought I gave at the end of last week just when I heard

about the generic

defection. For those of you who've forgotten, unforgivable, really, or who didn't listen,

which is a treasonable offence, the summary of it is this, that the generic defection

confirms and reinforces a deep schism on the right. When you have a

prominent shadow cabinet member who has the capacity to command the headlines going, it is a big

moment. And I reflected briefly that it looks as if the schism on the right could be as

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