For perspective on the Israeli attack on Gaza, we get two views now.

Aaron David Miller is a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a

longtime State Department official in both Democratic and Republican administrations.

And Hussein Ibish is a senior resident scholar at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington.

Thank you both for being with us.

So Israel and Hamas were supposed to be holding talks on the truce's second phase, which

would end the war, release more hostages. How do you explain Israel's latest attack on Gaza?

Well, I think the Israelis never were interested in phase two, because phase two means,

practically speaking, the end of the war.

As phase one reached its conclusion, Israel decided to change the rules of the game.

They demanded the release of all hostages.

That was supposed to come at the end of phase two.

But because they realized that phase two means, practically speaking, ending the war,

they don't want that. They want the war to continue, especially Netanyo does for personal political reasons, but also for ideological reasons.

So he took the opportunity of several disputes to start the war again in a big way. And among the

400 people killed are 130 children, according to UNICEF, the UN agency that helps children.

That's a really horrendous toll.

Aaron, David Miller, how do you see it, this idea that Israel was never really interested

in the second phase?

Yeah, I mean, it's great to be here with you and with Hussein.

Look, from the beginning of this three-phase agreement, even from

the conceptualized of it in the Biden administration, I think most of the negotiators believe that

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