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Donald J. Trumpi came the first sitting American president to actually visit North Korea symbolically really is he you know stepped a few steps into North Korea and then held some private talks with Kim Jong-un the demilitarized zone.

This happening just a week or so I think it was after we spoke with Anify Field for an extended period during the extra large podcast about North Korea and Kim Jong-un her fabulous book, The Great Successor,

The Divinely Perfect Destiny, a brilliant comrade Kim Jong-un is out now and I am reading it with great enjoyment and Anna who is the Washington Post Beijing bureau chief joins us now. Anna welcome. How are you?

I'm going to thank having me on again. Oh, it's it's our pleasure. So how significant was the president's visit to North Korea? Was it purely symbolism? Did it indicate anything? What's your take?

Yeah, I mean it was purely symbolism but having said that it also was significant in a way. So as you said he just crossed the line it was only a few steps but it was a big deal in terms of trying to kickstart these talks that have you know fallen apart at the beginning of this year.

So while it was all about show and very little substance, I think both Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump have shown that they want to resume these talks that they want to find a way to work together.

And so they're both told their officials to go away now and to figure out a way to make it happen and that was you know needed the signal from the top there.

So from Donald Trump's perspective it was quite an easy way to kickstart these talks. He was in South Korea anyway. He was able to go there to the DMZ but just astonishing that on such short notice both of these leaders managed to hold this meeting.

I'm sure their their AIDS were working frantically behind the scenes and stressed as can be if you don't mind I'd like to hit you with a cynical view and we can discuss that briefly then a more optimistic view.

The cynical view being that North Korea going back to generations of Kim leaders has alternated between making friendly accommodating noises and then making hostile hardcore negotiating noises all designed to kick the can down the road as they say.

And to perpetuate or to buy themselves time to perpetuate their nuclear program might this not be just more of that.

Well yes I mean I don't think the second thing that Kim Jong-un is giving up is nuclear weapons. I think he needs them. He feels like he needs them for his security and I can't see a situation where he would feel comfortable with giving them up.

So in that respect it's the same old situation as that has been for decades but in other respects I think Kim Jong-un is a much bolder leader than his father ever was and somebody who's willing to take bigger risks like exhibit A the phase that he went to the DMZ to meet Donald Trump on a moment notice

that he's not going to be able to make up because people are able to make all of the security arrangements that they ordinarily would do because he is interested in this process because he wants sanctions relief.

So he is going to try to do just as much as he needs to win sanctions relief from Donald Trump and hopefully get that economy moving a little bit inside North Korea.

So in the declaration and of fire and fury which is where we were in 2017 there is a lot of scope for some kind of change in there and maybe some kind of decrease in tensions and normalization of the relationship.

Excellent and a five field is online her book is the great successor and of the Washington Post and what I'd really like to do now is imagine a more positive future as you just hinted at North Korea with nuclear arms which is there a shame.

Which is there assurance that they will not be removed from power but willing to talk about a permanent peace treaty expanded trade that sort of thing knowing what you know about Kim Jong-un might he be the leader to usher that new era in.

Well I think he does want a peace treaty the Korean War continues to the technically to this day and so I think he I mean also the South Koreans also the Chinese all see a need to end this war and it's for once and for all.

So I think there is quite common extent of common purpose there but having said you know that he is interested in economic development there is a limit isn't that because Kim Jong-un knows that.

If he was to open up the country to foreign investment and to real economic reform that he would probably not survive as the leader of North Korea.

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