This is Moderate Rebels. I'm Ben Norton, as always, joined by my co-host, Max Blumenthal.

This is part two of our interview with a very good friend of the show. In fact, I think he's the most

frequent guest, Ali Abunima. You probably know him from his great independent news website,

The Electronic Intifada.

Definitely check that out.

And in part one of this episode, we talked about the potential foreign policy and the very

hawkish policies of Joe Biden, the next U.S. president.

And we talked about his secretary of state nominee, Anthony Blinken,

a liberal interventionist who supported the war in Iraq, the war in Syria, the war in Libya,

the war in Yemen, and who's a strong supporter of Israel. We talked a lot about how this bipartisan

support of Israel really unifies the Republican and Democratic parties. And it's just in

general, this hawkish imperialist foreign policy. And that I word, imperialism, is really just bipartisan

in Washington. So we talked about that in the first part. Well, now we're going to talk about

another element of imperialism a little bit, but we're moving over toward the French empire.

And we're talking about in this French Empire, and we're talking about

in this second part, Emmanuel Macron, the French center-right president, this complete neoliberal.

He's been praised by the U.S. Democratic Party as this great moderate leader, supposedly,

who is going to try to save Europe and the European Union,

a former banker turned president. But the reality is that Mahon is pretty going, he's going pretty

authoritarian right now in France, really cracking down aggressively, especially on the Muslim

population with these very Islamophobic policies, and he's really just trying

to out Le Pen, Marine Le Pen, who's the far-right leader of the National Front, while they change

...