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When genocide has been carried out in this country almost with impunity and when it is near to completion

people talk about intervention. You don't get freedom, peaceful.

Freedom is never safeguarded peaceful.

Anyone who is depriving you of freedom isn't deserving of a peaceful approach.

Hello, welcome to angry planner. I'm Matthew Gault. And I'm Jason Fields.

Ah, international waters. Quiet place to do some crimes or have some crimes done to you.

Welcome to Angry Ocean, a series we're doing that examines the underreported topic of

conflict on the high seas. This is part one, Outlaw Ocean. With us today is Ian Urbina. Urbina is an investigative reporter and the director of the Outlaw

Ocean Project, a non-profit journalism organization based in Washington, D.C. that focuses

on reporting about environmental and human rights crimes at sea.

Sir, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

All right, can you tell us about the Outlaw Ocean Project?

Why did you start it?

So this was a line of reporting.

I was on staff at the New York Times for 17 years,

and this line of reporting began there in 2014.

And its goal was really to take leaders out into this space that both the

expand people's awareness of the diversity of things that are happening out there, much of it not

positive. And we ran for two years in New York Times and eight big front page stories. And then I decided to take a break and from that and go write a book. So I went back to see for two more years for the photographer,

...