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Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Weapons of Math Destruction with Cathy O’Neil

Jill on Money with Jill Schlesinger

Audacy

Investing, Education, Business, Self-improvement

4.61.9K Ratings

🗓️ 7 September 2017

⏱️ 40 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week on the Better Off podcast it’s yet another example of my geekiness. I love math and statistics...but I am nothing compared to the brilliant Cathy O’Neil. I have been a fan girl of Cathy’s since discovering her blog, mathbabe.org and then hearing her on the Slate Money podcast. Cathy, whose New York Times bestselling book Weapons of Math Destruction is now out in paperback, is the ultimate math geek, but more importantly, she is one of the most thoughtful intellectuals that I have encountered. Cathy’s resume is impressive: a Ph.D. in math from Harvard, a postdoc at the MIT math department, a professor at Barnard College, where she published a number of research papers in arithmetic algebraic geometry and then a short-lived stint on Wall Street, before she launched her consulting firm, ORCAA. When I heard Cathy explain complicated topics and then read the hardcover edition of the book last year, I knew we had to have her on the pod.  It’s such a fascinating read about how big data increases inequality and threatens democracy. From how teachers are graded to how policing strategies are developed to credit scores and health insurance...it’s going to blow your mind when you hear how algorithms (mathematical models), dictate so much of our day-to-day lives. But what happens when these models are out of whack...opaque, unregulated and incontestable? Unfortunately, the already unlucky and struggling among us, get the short end of the stick. What can individuals do about these unproven mathematical equations? As you’ll hear Cathy explain, it starts by asking some basic questions.   I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. It’s by far one of my favorites...so much so that there’s no call this week, just the interview. “Better Off” is sponsored by Betterment. We love feedback so please leave us a rating or review in iTunes. "Better Off" theme music is by Joel Goodman, www.joelgoodman.com. For a recap of every episode, visit https://www.betterment.com/resources/topics/inside-betterment/better-off-podcast/ Connect with me at these places for all my content: http://www.jillonmoney.com/  https://twitter.com/jillonmoney  https://www.facebook.com/JillonMoney  https://www.instagram.com/jillonmoney/  https://www.youtube.com/c/JillSchlesinger  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillonmoney/  https://soundcloud.com/jill-schlesinger  http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jill-on-money  http://betteroffpodcast.com/  https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/better-off-jill-schlesinger/id431167790?mt=2

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hi I'm

0:03.2

I'm Jill Schlesinger and today on Better Off we've got Kathy O'Neill

0:07.4

author of Weapons of Math Destruction.

0:10.2

I'm not trying to say that I should be in charge of ethics. I'm saying we need to have an ethical conversation separate from an algorithm and we can't just say this algorithm is inherently fair and objective. It's simply not. It is subjective and we need to understand the subjectivity.

0:26.0

Welcome to the Better Off Podcast. We're sponsored by Betterment, the largest independent

0:30.6

online financial advisor.

0:32.6

Today on the program, I am so psyched.

0:35.0

I have been following this woman's career for a while.

0:39.3

Her name is Kathy O'Neill.

0:41.4

She is a mathematician. and she wrote a book released last year called

0:46.4

Weapons of Math Destruction. Get it, Math, not Mass. She is super smart, you know, PhD in math from Harvard. She worked in academia. She then went to Wall Street and became completely disillusioned with how math was being applied to various

1:05.8

things including the financial sector but beyond that as well and what has

1:11.4

been so fascinating to me is to read her work.

1:15.0

She's got a blog called Math Babe.

1:18.0

Gotta love that.

1:20.0

She's able to explain a lot of wonky math stuff in a way that we can all understand.

1:28.0

So by the way the book was nominated for 2016 National Book Award, lots of different awards, but it's out in paperback. A perfect opportunity

1:36.0

for you to purchase that and a perfect opportunity for you to learn how math for all of its wonderment can be misapplied and can actually lead to

1:48.6

unintended and bad consequences for us because of my nascent love affair with Kathy. We're foregoing

1:56.3

the call after this program but don't worry we'll drop another one on Tuesday

2:00.1

so keep letting us know if you've got a question. Just send us an email Ask Jill at betteroff podcast.com.

2:05.7

Here's my interview with Kathy O'Neill.

...

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