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Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

We’re Back to Where Mueller Began: Counterintelligence

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

Slate Audio

News Commentary,, Government, News

4.63.4K Ratings

🗓️ 19 January 2019

⏱️ 48 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

UPDATE: On the evening Friday January 18th, after production of this episode of Amicus had wrapped, special counsel spokesman Peter Carr issued the following statement: "BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate.” Ben Smith, editor-in-chief of Buzzfeed News says the publication stands by its reporting.

Dahlia Lithwick is joined by Asha Rangappa, a former FBI special agent specializing in counterintelligence investigations and now a senior lecturer at Yale University’s Jackson Institute for Global Affairs. Together, they unpack the counterintelligence angle of the Mueller probe.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

What the FBI would be doing is saying, on the criminal side, we believe the firing of James Comey was obstruction of justice.

0:17.4

And by opening the counterintelligence side, they are formalizing the suspicion of underlying collusion, which the obstruction was trying to prevent from being discovered.

0:33.1

Hi, and welcome to Amicus Slate's podcast about the courts, the Supreme Court, and the rule of law.

0:39.2

I'm Dahlia Lithwick. I cover those things for Slate.

0:42.6

A whole lot of Supreme Court happenings this past week, including Ruth Bader Ginsburg, sitting out oral arguments as she continues to recover from major surgery.

0:52.1

And a surprising unanimous decision this past week holding that

0:56.1

independent contractors who work in transportation cannot be forced into mandatory arbitration.

1:02.5

Court also handed down a 5-4 decision about use of force under the Armed Career Criminal Act,

1:07.7

and that 5-4 breakdown was not the usual suspects. The court now enters

1:14.0

its long winter break. RBG is promising. She'll be back on the bench for the February

1:19.1

sitting. And we are, I should note, well into the longest partial government shutdown in

1:25.0

American history. But that said, we thought this is a good week to

1:29.3

look back and try to make some sense out of what we've come to think of as the law of

1:35.3

Trump on this show since we've had not one, not two, but three massive new developments

1:41.2

on that score in this week alone. Last Friday, we learned for the first time from the New York Times that the FBI had started a counterintelligence inquiry into whether Donald Trump himself was somehow working for the Russians during the campaign.

1:57.2

Over the weekend, we learned from the Washington Post that Trump had had several meetings with Vladimir Putin for which there are no notes because the notes had been confiscated and destroyed.

2:07.2

And then late Thursday night, BuzzFeed offered up another bombshell to suggest that Donald Trump had actually directed his longtime attorney, Michael Cohen, to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump

2:20.3

Tower in Moscow. Now, if that latter reporting proves true, this is evidence for what I think

2:27.6

is the kind of obstruction that made its way into the articles of impeachment against both

2:32.8

Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton, who were alleged to have encouraged witnesses to make false statements under oath.

2:40.4

And we've talked a lot about the Mueller probe on this show.

2:44.3

We've talked to government lawyers. We've talked to white-collar crime experts and former federal prosecutors.

...

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