This is Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat. It's a podcast about workplace culture.

Hello, I'm Bruce Daisley.

A good person to follow on LinkedIn is Professor Rob Bryner.

He's a professor of organisational psychology at Queen Mary's University in London. But it posts quite a lot of stuff about

evidence-led people interventions, trying to dispel the idea that quite often some of the things

that we talk about and say are helpful, have limited evidence in their favour. You know,

you'll see this on other podcasts. People talk about,

oh, you need to do this, you need to do this. And in fact, from a lens of someone like Rob,

there's just no evidence that these things work. He posted something recently, which I've included

at the top of the show notes, which was a post about psychological safety.

Psychological safety must be the term that is most used in cultural interventions,

discussions about workplaces.

It's become sort of like the foundational part of workplace discussions. But the interesting thing, as he said in his post, was that even Amy Edmondson, the person credited with popularising the term, says that there's no accepted and proven copybook for how to bring about cyclical safety.

Well, today's guest feels that they have the answer to this. And for me, it's one of the most compelling

forms of system thinking about psychological safety that I think you can achieve. We're all

familiar with the notion that a idea in hindsight seems immediately obvious. And the thing that

Katrian is going to take us into is a discussion about how

actually psychological safety is an output of feeling a shared sense of group identity. Effectively,

it's when we've got a sense of us, a sense of wean us to our group that we unlock psychological safety. And she's demonstrated

this quite compellingly in a couple of papers that I've included in the show notes. The model

that she suggests in the show notes is the leaders forge a sense of the group's identity.

This weeness results from it, and then psychological safety

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