We Need To Talk About the Espionage Act
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 15 June 2023
⏱️ 47 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The first 31 counts of the Trump Mar-a-Lago indictment all are under the Espionage Act, which has led to a lot of confusion because Trump is not accused of spying. Heidi Kitrosser is a professor of law at Northwestern University and an expert on the Espionage Act. She wrote a recent piece in Lawfare about the Espionage Act and its history of prosecutions during the Trump Administration. She joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk about the law, its history, the problems with it, and how overbroad it is in some areas—and why none of those areas implicate the Trump indictment. It's an interesting conversation that covers media prosecutions, prosecutions of leakers, and prosecutions of spies, and it will give you all the background you need to understand the controversy about the charges against Trump.
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Transcript
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| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | If it's truly an accident, you know, a staffer gave you a box, |
| 0:39.0 | and you didn't know what was in it or something like that, |
| 0:41.0 | it's certainly negligent. |
| 0:43.0 | It would be more difficult, I think, to say you intentionally did it, |
| 0:46.0 | knowing that it was unlawful. |
| 0:48.0 | But to the extent that you take an action that you know you're taking, |
| 0:52.0 | that, you know, maybe you think to yourself, |
| 0:54.0 | I'm just going to bring it home for work. |
| 0:56.0 | You don't mean any harm. |
| 0:58.0 | But you know you're doing it, you know you're not supposed to. |
| 1:00.0 | That's clearly within the act. |
| 1:02.0 | I'm Benjamin Wittis, and this is the LawFair podcast, |
| 1:06.0 | June 15, 2023. |
| 1:10.0 | The first 31 counts of the Trump Mar-a-Lago indictment |
| 1:14.0 | all are under the Espionage Act, which has led to a lot of confusion, |
| 1:19.0 | some of it intentional confusion, because Trump is not accused of spying. |
... |
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