Welcome to Current Affairs.

My name is Nathan Robinson. I am the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs magazine.

Returning to the program today is dear friend of the magazine Matt McManus.

He is a lecturer in political science at the University of Michigan.

The author of The Political Right and Equality, as well as the new book, The Political Theory of Liberal Socialism,

about which we are here to talk to him today. I think that was grammatical.

Nightbook Manus, welcome to current affairs. Yeah, thanks, man. It's great to be here.

Love the magazine. I've been loving some of the stuff that you've been pushing out recently,

especially, so keep up the good work. Oh, thanks very much. Well, you know, you and I have co-written things for the magazine that I would be proud of, too, and I think we've discussed at least one or two of those

on the program before. But today we're here to talk about your book on liberal socialism. Now,

the reason I'm grateful for your book on liberal socialism is that you are a political theorist,

you are a political philosopherist, you are a political philosopher,

and I studied political philosophy as an undergrad. And I remember going to these classes,

and in many ways it was very exciting for me, because in high school I'd learned history,

I'd learned geography, I'd learned geography, I'd learned math.

But I'd never gotten to think in the classroom about issues of justice, issues of the good.

Philosophy was kind of exciting for me.

And political philosophy, thinking about the correct organization of a state and what gives a state its legitimacy and how do we, you know, to what extent is it necessary or

obligatory for a citizen to follow the law, these were kind of exciting questions for me

to be able to think deeply about

in an academic setting. But as I grew older and looked back on my political philosophy education,

I realized that it never really touched on issues of economic justice at all. We talked in the classic political philosophers. We're all

...