I'm Micahutrich, associate editor at Jacobin, on a recent episode of the podcast Bad with Money with Gabby Dunn, Gabby spoke with Jacobin managing editor Nicole Ashoff.

Nicole is also the author of The New Profits of Capital, which is published by Verso as part of the Jacobin series, and she talks here about how the free market extends further and further into our personal lives, what financialization is, and why capitalism is losing

legitimacy among young people.

Thanks to Gabby for letting us publish this audio, you can find her podcast bad with money with

Gabby done that's g-a-b-y-d-u-n-n wherever you get your podcasts next up my conversation with Nicole Ashoff. As I mentioned, Nicole is the managing

editor of Jack oven magazine, which looks at political and economic issues from a socialist perspective.

I know socialism is a loaded term, but don't worry, guys, this isn't the episode where I reveal

my secret agenda to convert you all into dreadlocked radicals and trick you into moving to my commune.

That's another episode.

God I wish I had a commune.

But it is the episode where, with Nicole's help, we ask some very challenging questions

about the financial gospel that a lot of us have accepted

without pausing to question it.

A lot of this podcast is me asking possibly the dumbest questions I could ask.

So will you explain just capitalism and then also explain why people like it so much?

Okay, so capitalism I think we can just think about it very systematically right?

It's a social system in which we have these kinds of relationships with each other, but the sort of underlying kind of logic of the system is that, you know, corporations have to make a profit in order to survive and ordinary average people have to sort of

To sell their ability to work right they have to work for a wage in order to survive.

And it's sort of, we can think about it as a voluntary system, right?

We're not sort of coerced into working, except maybe the very poorest people.

And we don't sort of organize our lives around, all right, I want to make the absolute most amount of money and I'm going to choose my life paths, you know, in order to do that. Some people do.

Some people do. Most people don't. Right? Some people do what most people don't. And this is because there are other values

...