In a day when racism still affects the church, Dr. Vanessa Ellen has a message for us all.

I need you and you need me. We are sisters in Christ. I don't think that we can get this work done without each other.

Let's kind of get over ourselves and let's get busy about God's business.

This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Walgamuth, co-author of True Woman 201, for August 22, 2019.

Look at your hand right now. You're aware of your own skin tone. Many of us don't wonder how we might be treated simply because of the lightness or darkness of our skin. We're also often unaware of ways we might unintentionally treat someone differently based solely on their ethnic background.

But for some in our audience, that's an everyday reality. The Civil Rights Act of 1964

didn't magically fix racial tension in the U.S. And our local churches don't automatically

become racially inclusive just by singing,

Let every kindred, every tribe on this terrestrial ball, to him all majesty ascribe, and crown him Lord of all.

We find racism on our streets and in our pews because we still find pride in our hearts.

Our guest today understands racial discrimination firsthand.

Dr. Vanessa Ellen is a pastor's wife and the chair of women's ministry at the College of Biblical

Studies in Houston, Texas.

Recently, she was here at Revive Our Hearts to help record some episodes of our new

podcast, Women of the Bible. Nancy sat down with her to discuss this issue. Let's listen to their

conversation. Vanessa, I'm so thankful to have had the chance to meet you and to have a brief

conversation here on Revive Our Hearts. Thank you for participating with us in this ministry this week, behind the scenes, and here on the broadcast as well.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so intrigued by many of the things that you're involved in, the way that you're counseling women and mentoring them.

You're teaching at the college level, teaching women's ministry, and so you're dealing with a lot of the issues that

women wrestle with. And for someone who may not be able to see us here, you are African American.

Yes. I'm not. And if you're just listening to the audio, you might not know that. I think one of

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