Tonight, a conversation with one of America's leading writers, George Packer, who will join me to discuss nothing less than the future of the American Democratic experiment.

Next.

This is Washington Week with the Atlantic.

Good evening and welcome to the last Washington week of 2024.

Joining me tonight to make sense of this year and America's future, which is a big job,

admittedly, is George Packer. George is my colleague at the Atlantic and was my colleague

at the New Yorker, and he's known far and wide for his penetrating analysis of American history

and American politics.

George is the author of many books, including the bestselling The Unwinding and Inner History of the New America,

which won the 2013 National Book Award and is widely understood to be one of the most prescient books of the pre-Trump era.

Across his distinguished career, George's reporter from Iraq, he was one of the first reporters to recognize from the streets of Baghdad that the American invasion was going sideways, as well as from war zones in countries and turmoil around the world. Tonight, we're going to focus a bit on turmoil at home. George, welcome. Welcome to the show. It's good to be with you. Thanks for coming on.

So let's start with your biggest piece of the year. What will become of American civilization?

We really give you headlines that are daunting. Obviously, the piece which ran in the summer

of 2024, it was written before Trump's second victory.

But it was written, I think, with Trump very much in mind.

The backdrop is Trumpism.

So for the story, you spent many months in Arizona,

which you kind of treat it as a crystal ball,

in a way for the future of the country.

And here's the way, actually, you describe the precariousness of the valley in which Phoenix sits.

Growth keeps coming at a furious pace, despite decades of drought and despite political extremism

that makes every election a crisis-threatening violence.

...