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This is Intelligence Matters with former acting director of the CIA, Michael Morrell. Brought to you by Lockheed Martin. Your mission is ours.

The relationship through all of my career as a journalist

is caring about the Middle East. The US and Iran collision has been a central

fact of life. It's been the destabilizing element in the Middle East. We have not, over that time, found an effective way

really to deal with that regime. We tried different ways. We tried being tough.

The most extreme action we've taken probably was the targeted killing of

Cosmselomite. Our reaction when I heard was first that we had crossed a line.

Immediate repercussions have been less than expected and that's good for us.

That might not be over yet, right? In the Middle East. Nothing's ever ever.

Nothing is ever.

Political bedrock in Saudi Arabia is getting more and more authoritarian. There's no sign that I see that

MBS realizes that he's building a police state and much build one than you need more police to enforce it.

And that I think is a tragedy. I think Saudi Arabia that changes and moves in the future.

We should all endorse that. And that part of what's going on we should say, that's great.

But the worry is unless he broadens his base, unless he governs by something other than raw fear of

other people. It's not going to work.

How do you think the IC is holding up in a current political environment?

I do worry that getting battered now has been three years.

Right.

A pretty much ceaseless assault on these agencies is going to take its toll,

not least in people being afraid to be visible and accountable in a way that they need to be.

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