Chad Daybell, who I regard as the cult leader.

He was really targeting in a very knowing and specific way,

the Mormon community and people who were devoutly religious and focused on end of the world scenarios.

Welcome to the global phenomenon, surviving the survivor, where we're all just trying to survive in a rough world.

What's up, SDS Nation, and welcome to another episode of Surviving the Survivor,

the podcast that promises to bring you the very best guests in all of true crime and

trust me today you're in for a special tree. We are diving back into the Lori Valo de Bell story. It is day four of her long-awaited

murder trial inside a Boise, Idaho courtroom, not to be confused with Boy Z, which is how outsiders say it and today we're going to explore the question

where Lori and Chad in the cult of crazy and we've got an expert here who's going to answer that question for

us.

Of course this is the trial of the so-called Doomsday mom.

It is a wildly twisted story of a seemingly loving mother a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who becomes involved in the deaths of as many as five people including her very own children. Best guest today. Rick Ross and

not the rapper. Rick Allen Ross. He is a cult intervention specialist and frequently a court expert witness

concerning groups called cults and we'll find out exactly what cults are. He was contacted by the grandparents of

J.J. Before and after Lori Valo and Chad Daybell were arrested and we'll

speak to him about that. He is the founder and

executive director of the cult education institute and the author of cults

inside out. You might want to grab that book ahead of this trial cults inside out.

Anne Bremer is a trial attorney joining us for the first time and one of the nation's most

recognized legal analysts.

In her 35 years of practice, she has been lead counsel for many high publicized court cases and

was a prosecuting attorney for the criminal division of the King County

...