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The Next Big Idea

Want to Be Happier? Try Talking to Strangers.

The Next Big Idea

Next Big Idea Club

Social Sciences, Society & Culture, Education, Science

4.41.3K Ratings

🗓️ 4 June 2026

⏱️ 78 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Nicholas Epley is a mind reader. But he doesn’t have ESP or practice hypnosis. He's not telepathic or clairvoyant. Sure, you could ask him to read your fortune, but you'd be better off with a Magic 8 Ball. When we say Nick is a mind reader, what we mean is he studies mind reading at the University of Chicago — studies, as he puts it, "how we make inferences about each other's thoughts and beliefs and attitudes, and mostly how we screw that up." Today, he makes small talk — and big talk — with Rufus about his new book, A Little More Social, which draws on the dozens of studies he's run with thousands of participants to show that talking to strangers, cringe as it may feel, can enliven your days, lengthen your life, and maybe even heal our politics. If you enjoyed this episode, check out our conversations with Charles Duhigg, Leslie John, David Brooks, Marc Schulz, Anna Sale, and John Colapinto. The Next Big Idea is now on YouTube! You can find our episodes ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠. Follow Rufus on ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, subscribe to our ⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠, or send us an email at ⁠podcast@nextbigideaclub.com⁠. The best way to support the show is by becoming a Next Big Idea Club member. Learn more at ⁠⁠nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠, and use code PODCAST for a super secret discount (spoiler: it’s 20% off). 🔗 Sponsored By: Fora — Build and scale your own travel business by becoming a Fora Advisor today at foratravel.com/idea Northwest Registered Agent — Helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. Learn more at northwestregisteredagent.com/nbifree Shopify — Launch your business for just $1/month. Start selling today at shopify.com/nbi

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Rufus Griscombe and this is the next big idea.

0:04.1

Today, Nicholas Epley on the scientific case for being a little more social. My mother lives by herself in a four-bedroom house.

0:34.7

She has many friends and a gift for connecting with people, but I don't think

0:39.0

she would mind me saying that living alone can be hard. It sometimes hurts being alone. And it's a

0:45.4

hurt that far too many people feel. The percentage of Americans who live alone has risen from

0:51.8

7.7% in 1940 to almost 28% in 2020, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

0:59.6

There's a strange irony here. Over the last century, tens of millions of Americans have migrated

1:04.6

from rural areas to cities. We've never lived closer together. We, supposedly the most social animals on the planet, sit inches apart in waiting rooms,

1:15.2

doctors offices, airports, subway cars, coffee shops, staring forward, avoiding each other's gaze,

1:22.5

pretending that we're not surrounded by other human beings.

1:26.4

Doctors' offices may be the right place to sit alone,

1:29.3

because that's where our social isolation is driving us.

1:32.3

Loneliness triggers cortisol, our body's stress response,

1:36.3

which over time erodes our bodies from the inside.

1:39.3

It causes cancer, heart disease, everything bad.

1:42.3

It also may be part of the story of our political polarization.

1:47.3

It doesn't have to be this way, says Nicholas Epley, author of the new book, A Little More Social,

1:53.7

How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health and Connection. Nick has spent the last 15 years researching how we read and routinely misread the minds

2:05.5

of the people around us.

2:07.5

Through dozens of experiments with thousands of participants, his work reveals that the

2:13.0

paralyzing social barriers we experience are almost completely self-imposed built on a misplaced pessimism.

2:21.3

Again and again, his research finds that we underestimate how much other people want to hear from us,

...

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