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This is Deep State Radio, coming to you direct from our Super Secret Studio in the third sub-basement of the Ministry of Snark in Washington, D.C.

and from other undisclosed locations across America and around the world.

Hello, and it's that time of the week when we talk about the intersection of defense and technology. We call it, we're all going to die radio.

And this week we've got an episode that makes that title seem especially apt, but don't tune out now.

We will make global gloom and doom fascinating for you.

I know that because I'm joined as ever by my co-host, John Wolfstahl. How are you doing, John?

I'm good, David. Yes, I agree. The next 40 minutes will be well worth the limited time people have left.

That's just terrific. We're also joined by Heather Williams, who's the director of the project on nuclear issues at CSAS and adjunct research staff member at the Institute for Defense Analysis.

How are you doing, Heather?

I was feeling great until that intro. You're putting a lot of pressure on us if these are some of the last words.

Look, if you want to interspers good news into this conversation, proceed at your own risk.

And another friend, Jeffrey Lewis, who is the director of the East Asia Non-Troliferation Program at the Middlebury Institute and is the host of the arms control walk podcast. How are you doing, Jeff?

I'm in upstate New York. So as far as I'm concerned, the nuclear war can't come fast enough.

Well, when I was a kid, you know, life magazine would periodically run a photo of New York with the blast radius as of different size nuclear weapons.

And I lived in New Jersey, and I felt really good that I lived just outside of the biggest blast radius.

But I'm glad to see that a specialist like you, Jeff, lives your life that way all the time.

So does this mean, Jeffrey, when you're in Monterey, you root against nuclear war happening, but when you're upstate New York, you're actually rooting for the war? Is that the dichotomy here?

Yeah, basically. I mean, it does depend on targeting the way I look at it is. I'm outside of Schenectady. And if you put, I don't know, 50, 60 kilotons on Schenectady, you'd do a billion dollars in improvements.

Someone born in Schenectady, I resent.

That's good. Do you live there now? No.

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