Welcome back to the Ten Blocks podcast. This is Brian Anderson, the editor of City Journal.

Joining me on the show today is Bruno Masayesh. He's a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. He's the author of a number of books,

including most recently Geopolitics for the End Time, from the pandemic to the climate crisis,

which we'll talk a little bit about today.

He served in the Portuguese government as Secretary of State for European Affairs, and he's a regular

contributor to City Journal. With this most recent article, Enter the Metaverse, appearing in our

brand new winter issue and now available online.

So Bruno, great to have you back on the show.

Thanks for joining us.

That's great to be back.

Let's start with this essay, Enter the Metaverse.

You know, we're hearing a lot about this term in the business press,

in the regular news these days, Facebook has renamed itself meta.

Why don't we just set the term to the discussion about this?

You know, what is the metaverse in your view?

Yes, a lot of discussions, some people getting tired of the term. It's not my case. I think it's a

really fundamental concept, and that also explains the attraction that I think you see, that everyone

wants to have an opinion on this. In my case, I think we have to look at it in broader terms, in terms of the history of political thinking and the history of political forms.

It immediately seems to me as appealing to an idea of technological transformation, to an idea of increasing detachment from reality, which is part of our political tradition,

going back decades, going back centuries.

And that's the reason I believe that the term has become so attractive.

It fits with the zeitgeist, with the mood of the times,

...