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I thought, okay, if it went north, where would it go? Basically over India, over Nepal, over the Himalayas, over far western China, into Tajikistan, into Kazakhstan, and it would have wound up in central Kazakhstan.

It's where Russia is space program is. So Russia has, you know how we have Guantanamo Bay? It's like in this sort of hostile country, but it's like ours. Right. But they have a circle. It's like 60 miles across in Kazakhstan. There happened to be a big runway in a very remote part of this space that like there's nobody that lives near it or anything. And so if you flew there and it would be like an hour before dawn, you could refuel it and fly off.

So I said to myself, okay, so if this went to Kazakhstan, you've got a very short list of potential perpetrators

because you would have to be like we're talking about like infinitely sophisticated, like infinitely clever and crafty and ruthless.

Kazakhstan is a client state of Russia. So who's on the plane? Well, there were...

Jeff Wise, welcome to the studio, sir. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

I'm excited to talk with you, too, because this, you and I had a chance to talk on the phone for a long time, about a month ago after the podcast that came out in November, which you saw.

And I wanted to give people some context before we start.

But for your chops, just so so people know you obviously have been an

aviation reporter for years all different kinds of publications you have reported on

the mh370 case as like an exclusive for the past I mean you do you do other reporting

too but as like the main focus over the past 10 years you're currently doing a podcast on it as well what's the name of that podcast uh the podcast is called deep dive mh370 okay great name we'll put that down in the description but also you know when not to not to not address the 500 pound elephant in the room obviously when I did the last

podcasts there were two of them with Ashton there was all kinds of drama online after that

that is not something I've ever had to be involved with it's not something I enjoy being involved

with people obviously get very uptight about this case, but, you know, that aside, you were a guy, what I really appreciated about you not only watching those podcasts because I didn't know you when you did, but then also talking with me and having a great conversation is that while I was very complimentary of your career in those podcasts and

a lot of the work you've done on this case that we're going to get through today, I also

threw some funny side-rim shots about your theory on this case, and you were beautifully magnanimous

about it, and that made me like you. So I want to be able to litigate some of that today we'll we'll get

to what we get to with it but what i really want to do is try to set like you did an amazing

job of figuring out exactly what happened to where we lost where we lost i guess like

contact with the aircraft right when this happened and then obviously there are some theories that could go on beyond that but you also did a great job of poking holes or issues into the aftermath over the next couple years which we will talk all about today right so I'd like to start at the very beginning that little monologue aside okay when did you when

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