Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs)

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Lenny Rachitsky

Technology, Business, Entrepreneurship

5 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 2 October 2022

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Kristen Berman is the CEO and co-founder of Irrational Labs, where she helps companies like Google, Airbnb, PayPal, Microsoft, and LinkedIn improve their products and services through behavioral design research. She is also the co-founder of Common Cents Lab, a Duke University initiative dedicated to improving the financial well-being of low- to middle-class Americans. In today’s episode, Kristen shares the 3B Framework of Behavioral Design and uses real-life examples to illustrate what influences behavior change and the common biases that get in the way of building successful products. She also explains how to keep users engaged and how you can implement behavioral design research to drive innovation and growth.

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Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/using-behavioral-science-to-improve-your-product-kristen-berman-irrational-labs/#transcript

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Where to find Kristen Berman:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/bermster

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenberman/

• Website: https://irrationallabs.com/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible:

• Flatfile: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny

• Whimsical: https://whimsical.com/lenny

• Lenny’s Job Board: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent

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Referenced:

Learn more behavioral science:

• 3B Behavioral Design Framework https://miro.com/miroverse/3b-behavioral-design-framework

• Irrational Labs newsletter, with latest BE and behavioral design insights: https://irrationallabs.com/newsletter/

• Join the Behavioral Design Online Bootcamp (use code “Lenny” for 10% off): https://behavioraleconomicsbootcamp.com/

• Get the 3B Framework: https://irrationallabs.com/3bs-download/

• Behavioral Design & Diagnosis Cheat Sheet: https://irrationallabs.com/download-behavioral-design-guide/

• The 16 Critical Cognitive Biases (Plus Key Academic Research): https://irrationallabs.com/blog/cognitive-biases-and-academic-research/

• Behavioral Game Design: 7 Lessons: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/behavioral-game-design-7-lessons-from-behavioral-science-to-help-change-user-behavior/

• Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions: https://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-Expanded-Decisions/dp/0061353248/

• Prolific testing platform: https://www.prolific.co/

• Kristen’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/people/23170097-kristen-berman

• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion: https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion/dp/0062937650

• The Darwin Economy: Liberty, Competition, and the Common Good: https://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Economy-Liberty-Competition-Common/dp/0691156689/

• The Science of Change podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-science-of-change/id1587407079

• No Stupid Questions podcast: https://freakonomics.com/series/nsq/

• Stream The Rehearsal on HBO Max: https://www.hbo.com/the-rehearsal

• Chris York’s website: https://www.chrisyork.co/

Case studies mentioned:

• Budgeting fintech: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/budgeting/

• TikTok: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tiktok-how-behavioral-science-reduced-the-spread-of-misinformation/

• One Medical: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/one-medical-case-study/

• Credit Karma: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/behavioral-design-credit-karma-money/

• TytoCare: https://irrationallabs.com/case-studies/tytocare-virtual-medical-visits/

• Kiva: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/the-deadline-made-me-do-it/

• When to Make Your Sign-Up Flow Harder: https://irrationallabs.com/blog/its-not-always-about-making-things-easier-when-to-make-your-sign-up-flow-harder/

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In this episode, we cover:

(03:54) What is Irrational Labs, and what do they do?

(05:45) What are behavioral economics and behavioral design?

(06:50) The fintech budgeting experiment

(10:46) What drives behavior change?

(11:35) Why increasing friction can sometimes increase conversion

(13:51) How to ask the right questions for user engagement

(16:09) How Kristen got her start in behavioral economics

(18:10) The 3B model of behavior change

(20:37) Cognitive barriers

(22:02) The importance of building products with immediate benefits to the user

(24:20) How exploitation can occur

(26:45) How to set customer-friendly incentives

(29:15) How Kristen reduced the sharing of misinformation on TikTok

(31:58) Tips for researching and solving problems

(35:36) The One Medical case study

(38:31) Rules of thumb for improving flow

(41:46) What is right-for-wrong?

(47:00) How to get started using behavioral design

(49:33) The Behavioral Design Bootcamp

(52:01) Lightning round!

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Economics says, look, people are rational, we make decisions with no emotion, we
0:04.9	using lots of computational energy, weigh the pros and cons.
0:09.0	I mean, obviously, that's just not true.
0:11.4	It ignores the whole field of psychology and so in behavioral
0:14.5	economics you combine the field of psychology and economics and say look people
0:19.0	make decisions with lots of emotion, we are present bias, we overweight our present selves, we follow
0:26.5	social norms, but the good news is that we do these things in predictable ways and once you
0:31.3	understand how and why people behave you can start to change it.
0:35.9	And so behavioral science and behavioral design basically uses those insights on psychology to actually
0:41.3	apply it within real world problems.
0:45.0	Welcome to Lenny's podcast. I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the
0:50.5	craft of building and growing products.
0:53.0	I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-won experiences
0:57.4	building and scaling today's most successful companies.
1:00.4	Today, my guest is Kristen Berman.
1:03.0	Kristen is the CEO and co-founder of Irrational Labs,
1:06.0	where she and her team used behavioral science
1:08.0	to help companies like Google, Airbnb,
1:11.0	PayPal, Microsoft, Fidelity, and Tic Talk
1:14.2	build better and more successful products.
1:16.6	In her conversation, we cover a ton of real life examples
1:20.0	of product changes that her and her team helped craft that led to significant impact at the companies.
	...

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