Hey guys it's Leo and today we have a special episode of actualized.org where I'm going to be interviewing

Martin Ball PhD. He's an adjunct professor in Ashland, Oregon at the university there.

And what we're going to be talking about is we're going to be talking about

Psychodelics and specifically 5 MEO, because he's a big advocate of 5EO

and what it can do for us spiritually and for development.

So I want to talk to him because he's got a lot of experience with all sorts of

psychodellics and specifically five a meal

and he's got some uh... amazing insights to share with us

uh... listen close because this could really change your life if you take

into practice some of the things we're going to talk about here today.

Hey, Barton, say hey.

Hey, it's great to be here.

Thanks for having me on, Leo.

Yeah, you bet.

So I guess the most direct question, million dollar question is can 5MEO actually be used to attain

Enlightenment or however you want to call it liberation or all the different words that are for this

non-duality thing that we're talking about?

The short answer is yes, absolutely.

Though we had a prior conversation just the other week and one of the things that we talked

about there is that I like to make a very clear and strong distinction between what I call

an Enlightenment experience and then what is actual

Enlightenment or liberation which I would define as freedom from the confines of

...