I'm Christopher Leighton. This is open source. Call this podcast, just two old friends in and out of journalism talking about this Middle East war, which comes to feel more like a contest in war crimes.

Steve Erlanger is my friend, he's the New York Times Chief Diplomatic Correspondent in Europe.

Too many wars, Steve, in your lifetime.

Too many. I'm thinking back of the Balkan Wars, Yugoslavia coming apart. We had wonderful conversations on the radio as it happened. You've been in the Middle East this time, you're back in

brilliant on a break. Let's just think about this thing. In the terms that you

put forward last week in the Times, all the assumptions or some of the many many

assumptions that have been upended by this war. The thought for example even in

Bibi Netanyahu that Hamas could manage Gaza as an open-air prison or that Israel is

invulnerable to attack. Where would you begin in extending that list of

realizations, the bad news, or good or whatever? extending that

or good or whatever out of this war Steve.

Well the first thing I would say is there was an assumption

that you could park the Palestinian question that it wasn't the

wasn't the priority.

That the priority was the quote new Middle East unquote

which was Israel doing deals with the Gulf, with the UAE, even with Morocco,

Oman, and talking with American help to Saudi Arabia about normalization.

Now that was a very big deal, and if it would ever happen

would be a remarkable change,

but it meant in many people's eyes putting the Palestinians to the side

because there was no real answer to what was going to happen to the Palestinians.

So that's the first assumption, I think,

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