Coming up on the Mark Devine Show, competition and cooperation go hand in hand.

If you want to know the story of all of life, like you are not an individual organism, you're an ecosystem, you're the Amazon

rainforest. There's a microbiome within you that you could not live without that's

made up of billions of cells of things that are not your DNA. Our greatest

achievements and our worst atrocities were through

competition but cooperative competition. We worked together to compete with others, right? So competition

and cooperation are two sides of the same coin.

Welcome to the Mark Devine show.

I'm your host Mark Devine.

I appreciate your time and attention today.

Thank you so much for being here.

On this show, I love to explore what it means to be courageous,

fearless, and innovative through the lens

of the world's most inspiring and resilient leaders. I speak to martial arts grandmasters,

Navy SEALs, high-powered CEOs, and economic psychologists who've written

amazing books like my guest today, Michael Muthachrishna.

Michael's a professor at the London School of Economics.

He's got an educational background in engineering and psychology

with graduate training at Harvard in evolutionary biology, economics, and stats.

He was brought up in Sri Lanka, in Botswana,

Papua New Guinea, Australia, Canada, United States,

and now lives in the United Kingdom.

...