Where's science?

Got a fairly heartless face

I am so thrilled to be joined today by Andrew Coburn, DC editor of Harper's Magazine,

an author of the very timely spoils of war, power, profit in the American War Machine.

Welcome.

Very good to be with you.

I wanted to start with a big question, but it's the question that's motivating a lot

of the discourse right now, both in the mainstream media space and in the broader, and the narrower,

I should say, left media, which is the question of to what extent the US's foreign policy

has precipitated or played a role in the current crisis in Ukraine.

How you answer that question can get you called a Putin puppet in some circles or a

state department, chill, and other circles.

I want to ask you first how you answer that question, and then we'll have a conversation

about why it is that it's such a charged one.

Right.

It is the question of one of the big questions.

You have to start by saying causation is not justification, so nothing to do with

this is justified what bobbing cities like Putin is doing.

But it's clear that our policy toward Russia really, since the 90s, you know, it can be

seen as a trail stretching, you know, the trail of breadcrumbs stretches right back from

what started happening a few days a week ago to, I don't know, where do you want to

date it from.

...