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I'm Christa Tippett. Up next, my unedited conversation with family therapist and ambiguous

loss expert, Pauline Boss. There is, as always, a shorter produced version of this wherever you found

this podcast. So how are we, Christa? Do you need, uh, do you need levels? Okay. How's my voice?

Tell us, do you have lunch? Did you have lunch? Not really. What would you have breakfast?

I could have breakfast. Yes. A little musely. See? And some milk and coffee with milk.

And so it's a bit Swiss, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay. We got the thumbs up. All right. So,

so Pauline, when I, um, I'm going to have to say on the air right, then I know you, I think,

because it, but, um, as a neighbor and then as a friend, but, um, it was really, um,

and I feel like in some ways, I was, I was diving into a conversation that you and I have had

repeatedly or parts of it across the earth, but there was so much, I, there were so many depths to it

that I didn't know. So it was really exciting for me. Oh, really? Yeah. And like, I, you know, I'd read,

and I'd even read the books or parts of all the books, but, um, I'm knowing that I was going to

interview you. And then also, I think this stuff, um, you know, wherever you are in life and whatever

you're attending to, um, this make, this all makes sense in different ways. It's a different time

of life. Yeah. It reads differently. Yes. So, um, you know, because I've been, I wrote about,

there's some things about my father and that, in my book, I just wrote and I was, and so,

something I was really seeing some of that part of your work to me. So it's really interesting. So,

um, so happy we're doing this. Good. Good. Now, if I get a frog in my throat,

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