Support for On Being with Christa Tippett comes from the Fetzer Institute, helping build the spiritual foundation for a loving world.

Fetzer envisions a world that embraces love as a guiding principle and animating force for our lives,

a powerful love that helps us live in sacred relationship with ourselves, others, and the natural world.

Learn more by visiting Fetzer.org.

I'm Christa Tippett. Up next, my unedited conversation with journalist John B. On,

being human and being white. There is, as always, a shorter produced version of this wherever you found this podcast.

Okay.

And I am rolling on my tape sink here.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

I know that one thing we were all excited about, about interviewing you is that it would be technologically unchallenging.

Well, I hope it turns out to be, yes.

Yeah. I mean, one should never say that because I'm known long enough, but you know, you're talking with the greatest Iastian set up in the world.

Yeah. This will be the time that I, it turns out that I just, my machine fails to record anything or something.

But it's really good to be with you.

I'm genuinely honored that you guys can do this.

Thank you. I'm, I'm excited.

I was excited all day and I thought it's odd to be excited about a conversation that is so hard and kind of embarrassing, you know, as a word.

I've spoken a lot this year, but I, I and, and we, you know, have so appreciated your work as a companion to what was happening in the world and, and also to, you know, how we were thinking about what we could do.

And, you know, I want to say kind of upfront. I want to, I want to kind of give you a point, my point of view.

I'm this, well, well, first of all, just to say, it's really important to me that my sense of hour audience is that all kinds of people are listening.

...