And the Ben, let's talk a little bit about the founding. I think the general sentiment among many evangelicals, especially those who are a little older, will say, is that everything is crazy.

We live in Clown World, but the problem is the wrong people are running the system right if we got the right people in there we if we just got trump back in or something we could really start reversing things.

And I think that younger conservatives and Christian

conservatives in particular are more red-pilled as they say on this and they're just they

think that there's actually a flaw perhaps in that maybe the system is ill-suited

for the environment that it's it's like clothes that don't fit anymore it's just it's not

something that is workable and this idea that the founding is this ethnogenesis moment in which for the first time in human history the American experiment was born in which these innovative universal ideals were finally applied to a people.

I mean it took thousands of years but finally this happened.

And it's the only perfect system and departing from it is a very scary thing because any

the deportation is going to wind up in some kind of an error.

That seems to be what the younger conservatives are somewhat up against. And so I do want to have you talk a little bit about

this idea that the founding is classical liberal. It's an Enlightenment project. It's about universal human rights and and I think that carries through the

the post-war period and that that's like a main article of faith, if you will.

And then just real quick, I was reading some Mel Bradford this morning,

which is always good, right?

And he was talking about the Declaration of Independence.

It was very fascinating to me.

And he said in the first century

after the Declaration of Independence was adopted or so,

it was not taken the way it was, and he was writing in probably the 80s it was not taken as it was in the 20th century the second half of the 20th century and it wasn't viewed as this kind of call to an egalitarian call to make social arrangements

equal. It was more of a body politic that now exists that's been

rejected by the king and denied their rights as

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