Undercover with the Real Donnie Brasco: Joe Pistone
Zone 7 with Sheryl McCollum
iHeartPodcasts and CrimeOnline
4.4 • 696 Ratings
🗓️ 22 October 2025
⏱️ 54 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Behind every major shift in American law enforcement is someone willing to risk it all. In this episode of Zone 7, Sheryl McCollum speaks with retired FBI Special Agent Joe Pistone, better known as Donnie Brasco. His six-year infiltration of the Mafia redefined undercover work and exposed key figures within the Bonanno and Colombo families. Pistone reflects on the danger, isolation, and moral weight of living inside the mob, as well as the lasting personal cost of pursuing justice from within.
Guest Bio and Links:
Joe Pistone is a retired FBI Special Agent best known for his six-year undercover assignment infiltrating the Bonanno and Colombo Mafia families under the alias of Donnie Brasco. His work led to more than 200 convictions and remains one of the FBI’s most significant undercover operations. Pistone is the author of Donnie Brasco: My Undercover Life in the Mafia and continues to lecture worldwide on organized crime, covert operations, and law-enforcement ethics.
Highlights:
- (0:00) Sheryl welcomes retired FBI Special Agent Joe Pistone to Zone 7
- (2:15) The reality of deep undercover work: seven days a week and six months before any real mob conversations
- (7:15) Building a believable cover as a jewel thief through gem school, lock-picking, and street “swag” pricing
- (13:15) The line between survival and protecting citizen inside a violent criminal world
- (15:15) Sonny Black knowingly walks into his own execution after leaving his money, keys, and ring at the Motion Lounge
- (22:15) Mapping the mob, the Commission, family hierarchy, and how crews coordinated territory
- (31:45) Undercover is 24/7, with trust built over coffee, hard rolls with butter, and cartoons in a Brooklyn apartment
- (35:15) On the verge of becoming a made man before the FBI shut down the operation
- (37:30) The aftermath: more than 200 convictions, 17 trials, and a $500,000 contract placed on Pistone’s life
- (45:15) The sit-downs with Tony Mirra: Pistone describes how Sonny Black defended his life three times and reflects on the reality of undercover work
- (50:45) Hollywood vs. reality: the true story behind the movie Donnie Brasco
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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, forensic and crime scene expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. She is the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a national collaboration that advances techniques for solving cold cases and assists families and law enforcement with unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnappings.
Social Links:
- Email: [email protected]
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is an IHeart podcast. |
| 0:12.0 | If not for him, we would not have known about the American mafia. |
| 0:18.2 | The FBI didn't know how they were set up if there were families, the |
| 0:22.6 | hierarchy. They had no idea the crimes they were involved in. We had no idea what was right |
| 0:31.6 | under our noses, so to speak, with the mafia. Our guest tonight was tagged by the FBI to go undercover for six months. |
| 0:40.3 | They were like, hey, get in there, see what you can find out, get back out, we'll take it from there. |
| 0:46.3 | He spent six years undercover. |
| 0:51.3 | He lived within the Colombo crime family. He risk his life every single minute of every |
| 0:59.2 | single day for six months, y'all. It is an absolute honor to welcome retired FBI special agent Joseph Pistone to Zone 7. |
| 1:14.4 | Sir, welcome. Welcome to Zone 7. |
| 1:17.5 | Well, I appreciate you have it be out, Cheryl. Thank you very much. |
| 1:21.7 | Let me tell you, this is a privilege. This is something that very few people get the opportunity to do. |
| 1:33.7 | And I am just grateful that you are spending any amount of time with me and our listeners. |
| 1:46.5 | It's important. Your work was historic. Nobody, nobody, I don't think, can overstate the importance of what you did. |
| 1:49.4 | You single-handedly took down the mob. I don't know single-handedly, but I had a big part in it. |
| 1:56.2 | This was a big operation that lasted six years, and I eventually brought in a couple other undercovers |
| 2:05.5 | in different cities but I was the main undercover and the Colombo crime family was the |
| 2:15.4 | first family I infiltrated. |
| 2:20.4 | And then I went over to the Bonanos. |
| 2:25.5 | So I was with the Colombo's for about six months. |
| 2:35.1 | And then I went over to the Bonanos and stayed with the Bonanos for five and a half years for a total of six years total for the operation. |
| 2:41.7 | And you know, you and I spoke, and there's just certain things that would give you away. |
... |
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