Win Morgan. How are you? How lovely to see you?

Really good to see you too, Simon. Even though not in person today. I used to see you on my

screen again. How you doing? I'm very well. And I'm happy to have you here, Win.

We've had some great conversations. You very kindly have me on

your podcast. And before we dive in, why don't you share the name of your podcast? Because I think

it really speaks to a lot of where people go wrong, right? It's called Under the Noise.

And my co-host, Kate Roberts, when she asked me to consider doing a podcast about four or five

years ago now, in the message that I originally was going to say no to, I've been asked to do this

before, I'm not interested, but in the message that I read, it had these three words together

under the noise. And I said, okay, if we call it that. Yeah. And there is a lot under the noise. We get so, people get so trapped in, in the thinking

and the conceptualising and the categories and the judgments and the beliefs. And getting a bit

of distance from that is incredibly freeing as we shall explore during this conversation.

But let's start with a bit about your backstory, because for a long time, you were not a particularly happy chappy.

One way of saying it, yeah, I had bouts of depression since I can remember since I was really young.

And I would take everything seriously.

Outwardly, I would be the joker, happy go lucky, but inwardly I would constantly want to be

something else, somebody else older than I was, then younger than I was, then anything else

other than who I was. That wasn't a frivolous kind of wish.

It really felt like it was a thing.

So, you know, I battled with that right the way through to my 40s, I'd say.

And I'm not free of it now.

I'm not free of mood drops, but I understand what's going on.

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