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Now, you go to work, you love your job, but you hate your boss.

What do they even do all day other than to stand around interfering?

Well, numerous companies have come to that view

in a way and are trying to strip away layers of middle management. The word to describe this is

unbossing. Meta Amazon Citigroup, to name a few, are trying it, flattening the hierarchy.

And you know that while growth and productivity are much talked about, is it possible that we can strip out middle managers? We can cut

costs and we can let self-managing teams get on with the job. Well, what is an unbossed company

like and is it worth becoming one?

I have three guests with experience of setting up or working in the managerless businesses,

or not managerless, but reduced manager businesses with varying degrees of success.

Let's start with Chris May.

Now, he's the founder of Maiden. It's a company based in Bath.

It makes software systems for the NHS. Chris, tell us about how you do it, what you do that makes

Maiden, if you like, a flat hierarchy company. Okay. The way I always like to start this is if you go

to any business conference and you ask the

audience, how many of you manage other people? Almost everyone will put their hands up. If you then ask

them how many of you need to be managed by someone else, virtually nobody will put their hands up.

And you can see the virtual hierarchy is just collapsing like

...