There's this old term Facebook they used to use.

It's called, like, it makes a thumb-stopping.

Which is, like, so corny, but it's actually really true, right? You're, like, I'm doom-scrolling on my phone. And, you know, if I immediately identify it's an ad in, like, two seconds and it's boring, I'm just going to skip past it. I think the thing that's this hard most times to reconcile is, you know, a lot of folks that really in like performance marketing,

they'll tell you like ugly ads work better.

It breaks the paradigm.

Like you stop, you look at it. And so like usually from a metrics different thing, at least you'll get like, you know, higher click-through rates and things like that with ugly ads. The challenge obviously with that, you're not measuring the people who like saw that and now are totally turned off by your brand. And so I think it's always a balance. You want to look at the metrics, you want to make things engaging, but you also need to be very mindful of like, what are you not measuring? Are you cheapening things? And I think it's more like you have to have this like sort of synthesis between being qualitative and like, if I look at this, this is going to convince me to, like, buy this thing. Welcome to the Peel.

I'm your host, Turner Novak, founder of Banana Capital. Today's guest is Sam Ross, co-founder and CEO of Numero. And so what we're trying to do is make it so that anybody in the company can manage sales out without much expertise. A conversation is a masterclass of all things, growth at the zero to one stage. Growth doesn't matter at all if you don't have good retention.

You have these tactics that'll work is a masterclass of all things growth at the zero to one stage. Growth doesn't matter at all if you don't have good retention.

You have these tactics that'll work for a fixed period of time,

and while they work and while that arbitrage still exists,

you really have to go all out exploiting it.

We talk early growth lessons from Airbnb.

I figured out how to drive an incremental billion dollars of GMV.

Stories from being one of the largest, earliest Facebook advertisers.

Sam Malman came to our office, like, this is going to be a $10 billion company, no question.

How to work backwards from strong demand to find business ideas.

The match made in heaven is you pair these like growth tactics that get you out of the atmosphere

with an actual business that

you're able to drive and capture value over a long period.

How to establish early social proof around your product?

If someone you trust is using that product, that's a quick kind of like meta-rationality

to go and delegate your whole, you're searching. Why you shouldn't hire a growth person as your

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