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The Briefing Room

Ukraine: the long game

The Briefing Room

BBC

News, News Commentary

4.8731 Ratings

🗓️ 22 June 2023

⏱️ 29 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Ukraine's spring offensive has begun. But what can it realistically achieve? What can be done to prevent this becoming a 'forever war'? And in the meantime, how has this regional conflict impacted on global politics. Are we seeing a changed international order, with the rise of China and a new role for Africa and the Global South? David Aaronovitch and guests discuss the long game for Ukraine and its western allies.

Guests:

Michael Clarke, Professor of Defence studies and Specialist Advisor to the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy Karin von Hipple, Director General, Royal United Services Institute Shashank Joshi, Defence Editor at The Economist Mark Galeotti, Writer on Russian security affairs and director of the consultancy Mayak Intelligence.

Produced by: Bethan Ashmead, Claire Bowes and Kirsteen Knight Edited by: Richard Vadon Sound engineer: Graham Puddifoot Production co-ordinator: Debbie Richford

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Transcript

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0:00.0

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.

0:08.4

It's now 16 months since Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

0:14.5

So much that is consequential from the state of the world economy to European security

0:19.7

rests on the outcome of that conflict.

0:23.0

For several weeks now, the Ukrainians have been counter-attacking Russian forces,

0:27.4

and as President Zelensky said on Wednesday, progress has been slow.

0:32.6

So as of now, how does the balance of forces in Ukraine look?

0:37.0

What are the prospects for Ukrainian advances and what are the obstacles?

0:42.0

Step inside the briefing room and together we'll find out.

0:47.6

With me, to analyse the war so far and think about how events might unfold,

0:53.1

a Michael Clark, Professor of Defence Studies at King's College London

0:56.5

and Specialist Advisor to the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy,

1:01.3

Mark Galiotti, writer on Russian security affairs and director of the consultancy,

1:06.6

Mayak Intelligence, Shashank Joshi, defence editor of the economist,

1:12.6

and Karen Van Hippel,

1:18.0

Director General of the Royal United Services Institute. Mark Galeotti, we're now in the second summer of the war, and before we come on to discuss the current counter-offensive, what do you

1:23.6

imagine the military and political objectives of Ukraine and Russia actually are at this point?

1:30.4

Well, of course, even military objectives are ultimately political. I think Ukraine, I mean, obviously

1:35.3

in the long term, it wants to drive all the Russian forces out of Occupy territory. But I think,

1:40.7

realistically, for this campaign season, its aim is to make sufficient gains, territorial,

1:47.8

but also more broadly, about degrading the Russians' capacity to continue to fight, that it

1:53.2

reassures their Western backers, that this is not going to be a forever war, and that hopefully

...

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