This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

Seven years ago, Ty Cobb was a partner in a big international law firm, prominent, well-connected.

Then he got a phone call. Would he give up his job to go work for the White House for a while? The client was Donald Trump, and the issue

was Russian interference in the 2016 election. Trump and many others were being investigated in a probe

headed by Robert Mueller, the former FBI director.

In the end, some of Trump's circle were indicted.

Some even went to jail.

But Trump himself avoided indictment and dismissed the entire thing as a witch hunt.

But Ty Cobb went on to call Robert Mueller an American hero,

and Trump a threat to democracy. And one of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, well, sir, if we don't pay and

we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us? I said, you didn't pay, you're delinquent?

He said, yes, let's say that happened. No, I would not protect you.

In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.

You got to pay.

You got to pay your bills.

Now, once again, Donald Trump's attitude toward Vladimir Putin is in the headlines,

say after his recent remarks about NATO and in the wake of Alexei Navalny's death in a Russian prison.

Trump is also facing more than 90 criminal charges.

I spoke about all of that last week with Ty Cobb.

Right off the bat, because of your involvement in the Russia investigation,

I have to ask you about your reaction to the death of

...