Welcome to the global phenomenon, Surviving the Survivor, where we bring you the best guests in all of true crime.

Here's your host, Emmy Award winning journalist Joel Waldman.

What's up, St.S. Nation, and welcome to a very special episode of Survive and Survivor, the podcast that promises to bring you the very best guests in all of true crime.

This is hard for me to grasp, but it has been two years since the brutal quadruple

homicides at the University of Idaho.

Of course, the victims are foremost in our minds.

You've got Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalez, Xanacernodal, Ethan Chapin.

I'm going to try to do the show tonight. If we can pull it off without using the accused

killer's name, even though there's a little

bit of news, but we can just call him the accused killer.

Phil Waters, who's investigated over 400 homicides, refers to him as the evil doer.

But this guy has not been convicted yet, but nothing is looking too good for him at this point.

So without further ado, I'm just going to introduce the best guests, and some come from

St.S. Nation. Cindy Hollenbeck top right, you see there a long time Moscow resident, originally

from Binghamton, New York, where it snows a lot. She now is in Pullman,

Washington, but lived in Moscow for two decades, I believe all three of her children graduated from

Moscow high school, and she earned an MFA in creative writing from the University of Idaho.

And while she was employed as a marketing professional at Washington State University,

which is where the accused killer was getting his Ph.D.

She now works as a freelance writer and editor.

Next up, bottom left with the cool blue lighting and the Idaho. Is that an Idaho shirt

you're wearing? Vandals. There you go. Vandle gear. Vandals. That is, of course, the mascot at the

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