Welcome to the Thinking Fellows podcast.

I'm the producer, Caleb Keith, and I'm joined by our hosts, Dr. Rod Rosenblatt, Scott Keith, and Adam Francisco.

Follow these great minds as they answer pressing questions about theology, history, and apologetics.

This show is brought to you by 1517 The Legacy Project, serving to proclaim the gospel to all people, especially those broken by the church.

Welcome to the Thinking Fellows podcast. I'm producer Caleb, and I'm joined as always by

Dr. Rosenblot, Francisco, and Keith. And this week, we're moving along our Lochi topics, and we're

coming into perhaps seldom talked about doctrine, but a very important doctrine in Lutheranism,

and that's the two- theory or two kingdom practice.

What Americans might say, separation of church and state issues,

but we're going to talk about why this goes deeper than that.

And Dr. Keith, you were going to introduce this doctrine for us.

Yeah, we were just discussing before we started recording,

we probably should have asked Dr. Simon Udo to join us to lead the conversation.

Yeah. Manske's in glory, so that leaves Uvei.

But I wanted to start out with a quote from Luther. So it goes like this. This is Luther.

What would be the result of an attempt to rule the world by the gospel and the abolition of earthly law and forest. It would be loosing savage

beasts from their chains. The wicked, under cover of the Christian name, would make unjust use of

their gospel freedom. And again, to try to rule a country or the world by the gospel, would be like

putting wolves, lions, eagles, and sheep all together in the fold and saying to them,

now graze and live a godly and peaceful life together. The door is open and there is pastor enough and no watchdog you need fear. The sheep would keep the peace, sure enough, but they would

not live long. So what Luther is discussing there is he's sort of talking about the reason or the importance of a distinction that he made between the two kingdoms.

It's kind of an extension of what we did when we discussed the doctrine of the church, because as you'll see as we progress in this conversation that the church ends up in the right-hand kingdom,

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