Welcome to Therapist Uncensored, a podcast where therapists freely speak their minds about real life matters.

We are so excited for two reasons for today's episode. First of all, we are very happy and

appreciative that we have our former co-host, Patty Allwell, on the show today and very grateful that she's here and

that she's brought us an amazing interview with our guest today Esther Perrael

Esther Perrael has been noted by New York Times as the most important game

changer in sexuality and relational health since Dr Ruth. So that is saying a great deal. She has just

released a new book called The State of Affairs Rethinking in Fidelity. You

will find out today in today's episode how she helps us rethink the concepts

of sexuality, desire, infidelity, in our culture, and in our lives. I think she brings such a refreshing and

important voice and obviously many people think that. She has recently

also produced an audible series which is entitled

Where Should We Begin and that is live and unscripted Real Therapy Couple

Sessions that she does on a podcast. So we have found ourselves

referring many people to those sessions because it's just an invigorating way to get a behind the scenes look at what happens

when couples go deep and do work on really important and difficult matters.

So we're very excited to have her on our show today and

think you will really come away with some very, very deep insights. So let me

turn it over to Patty. So you've spent almost 30 years studying

love and desire. Could you tell our listeners what drew you to this subject?

So maybe just to give a bit of a

clinical trajectory I was trained originally in psychodynamic psychotherapy I had a degree in expressive arts therapies. I was very interested in the integration of the different artistic modalities into the therapeutic process.

And then I stumbled upon the Cambridge Family Institute and I began years of training in systemic family therapy. I spent many years studying with Salvador, the newuchin and with Pegitat.

...