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I welcome my colleague Veronique de Reggie of the Mercatus Center, George Mason University,

to comment on what we're observing in the markets, not just the turbulence,

but the talk of worse ahead, especially the word recession.

We begin, however, with another tumultuous day on Wall Street.

I'm more taken with the bond market, which is harder to understand.

Because last week after the President's announcement on Liberation Day, for the first two days,

I was told the bomb market looks like it's calm.

It looks like it thinks this too will pass.

That went away this week, and right now,

Veronique tells me the 10 year to watch that, it's at 4.4.

Veronique, a very good day to you.

What does that mean that the bond market is selling

and that the people

who were calm last week are no longer calm? Good evening to you. Good evening, John. Well, I mean,

it means that if the plan was for tariffs to get investors to run to safety and buy a lot of treasuries, which would have then reduced interest rates,

it's not working. In fact, I think that the shock of the tariffs has been so violent and so much wealth has been destroyed that a lot of people

who have had to do the opposite. A lot of investors have had to sell treasuries because they

had to patch holes in other places in their portfolios. And so interests are growing up.

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