Trump v Anthropic: The battle over who controls AI
Americast
BBC
4.3 • 3.1K Ratings
🗓️ 20 March 2026
⏱️ 27 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Away from the war in Iran, the Pentagon is engaged in another battle, with Anthropic and its AI chatbot Claude. After awarding the company a contract potentially worth $200 million last year to integrate their artificial intelligence into the Department of Defence’s classified systems, that relationship has ended with a lawsuit and a threat which puts the future of Anthropic in jeopardy.
Anthropic says it cannot acquiesce to the government’s demand that it breaches its own ‘red lines’ in how its technology is used. The company insists it cannot be used for mass surveillance of US citizens nor in lethal weapons that are operated without human oversight. It has filed lawsuits against the Pentagon.
Justin and Marianna speak to Dean Ball, Trump’s former AI adviser who helped devise much of the Trump administration’s AI policy, about Anthropic’s position and why he thinks the Pentagon have gone too far. They also discuss the controversy around domestic surveillance and how policy makers still do not fully understand how AI technology actually works.
Presenter: Justin Webb, Radio 4 presenter and Marianna Spring, social media investigations senior correspondent Producer: Purvee Pattni, Ben Carter and Alix Pickles Sound engineer: Michael Regaard Editor: Sam Bonham
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts. |
| 0:05.7 | Welcome to a new war for the Trump administration. |
| 0:08.8 | This is a domestic war. |
| 0:10.5 | It's a war with an American AI company. |
| 0:13.1 | The Trump administration say, |
| 0:14.9 | Anthropic is being unreasonable in the demands it puts on the software |
| 0:19.2 | it gives to the Department of Defense. |
| 0:21.4 | The company says, no, this software is potentially very dangerous. |
| 0:25.0 | We need to tell you what you can and can't do with it. |
| 0:28.1 | The Trump administration is now saying effectively, we're going to put you out of business. |
| 0:32.1 | Welcome to AmeriCast. |
| 0:36.1 | AmeriCast from BBC News. |
| 0:39.2 | You hear that sound? |
| 0:40.3 | Oh, I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money. |
| 0:44.1 | We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. |
| 0:48.3 | This is a big cover-up, and this administration is engaged in it. |
| 0:51.7 | This guy has Trump-arrangement syndrome. |
| 0:53.9 | I have four words for you. |
| 0:57.2 | Turn the volume up. |
| 1:03.1 | Hello, it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of AmeriCast in London, England. |
| 1:06.8 | And it is Marianna sitting next to Justin in the worldwide headquarters. |
| 1:10.1 | It hasn't been just the Brits for a while. |
... |
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