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I'm your host, Greg Sargent. President Donald Trump's case for leaving Kilmar-Abrego-Garcia to rot in an El Salvadoran prison continues to collapse.

We just had a conservative appeals court judge tear into the administration, pronouncing the denial of basic

due process to this man shocking. But today we're going to focus on a particular aspect of Trump's

argument, the claim that Abrago Garcia was a member of the MS-13 gang and therefore a dangerous

criminal. You can't overstate how central this is to the administration's case.

It's the primary rationale for refusing to bring him back from El Salvador in the first place.

So we're talking about all of this with someone who has done deep research into MS-13,

Eric Hirshberg, a professor of government at American University and a leading contributor to a major report for

Insight Crime on the MS-13 gang.

Eric, thanks for coming on.

My pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

Let's start with Trump, just to catch people up when Abrago Garcia, El Salvadoran, was first

detained in 2019 in the U.S.

He was identified by a Maryland police officer as a member of MS-13 based on very thin evidence.

He was subsequently given withholding of removal status, barring his removal to El Salvador,

but that's exactly what the administration did illegally in March.

...