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Music Hello, and welcome back to the David Frum show.

I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.

My guest today will be Douglas Irwin, who teaches at Dartmouth College and is, in my opinion,

America's leading expert on the history of trade and tariffs in this country. We'll be talking

directly about many of the myths that are offered by protectionists to justify trade restrictions,

tariffs. We'll be looking at episodes from American economic history and refuting some of the

stories that the

protectionists tell to justify their otherwise obviously self-harming policies. Before we begin,

though, a few thoughts but some very recent events. I am recording this podcast a few hours after the

Trump administration announced a supposedly big deal with the European Union that will see Americans paying much higher tariffs on everything they import from the countries of Europe.

We are speaking a few hours before, a few days before, the August 1st deadline for a whole lot more tariffs on everything from all the rest of the world.

Now, these measures follow, announced so-called trade deals with Japan, about which the details are extremely hazy and where the details keep changing and where the Japanese don't seem at all to have the same idea of what has been agreed, if anything, that the United States does.

And shortly after announcements of equally vaporous agreements with Britain and with China, there's a kind of trade truce in effect with China,

where the round of trade tariff increases has stopped rising and rising and rising, but Americans

are still paying more for everything because of the Trump tariffs than they were. That's a tax

paid by the Americans at least able to pay taxes. It's a tax that exempts all of the wealthiest people who spend

more of their money on things that aren't internationally traded, services here at home. Remember,

the dues at the country club aren't subject to the tariff. Your rent and your fancy penthouse,

...